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Bat rolling


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#1
jlurban

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Bat rolling is a process that improves your bat's performance by approximately 10%. This means 30-40 feet of additional distance after rolling compared to a stock bat. When a bat is rolled, it is placed between two rollers and pressure is applied so that as the bat passes through the rollers, its fibers are stretched out. This causes the fibers to become more flexible, which greatly improves the bat's trampoline effect when the ball hits the bat, resulting in increased batted ball speed and distance. It will make the sweet spot bigger and much more consistent as well.

We've been rolling composite bats for over 4 years. We purchased our first composite bat rolling machine in 2003 and started out doing the bats for our team and local players. Since several associations have recently grown to accept bat rolling, we have decided to make our years of experience available to the general public. This includes the design and manufacture of our own BR2008 Bat Rolling Machine.

We treat every bat as if it's our own and know you'll completely satisfied with our work. Knowing that a majority of our customers come from referrals, our goal is 100% satisfaction.

I would highly recommend you try our rolling service for any composite bat. It allows you to achieve the best results from your composite bat without having to take hours of batting practice.

Visit our site for information...batrolling4u.com.

BatRoller

#2
KCSoftball

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Be very careful before you use a "rolled bat" or altered in any way bat. ASA & Wilson (?) has taken two people to court and won a judgement of $100,000 against them for altering bats with the ASA or Wilson logo on them. It is called "CHEATING."

#3
KCSoftball

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From the ASA website:

ASA Testing & Certification Program

The Amateur Softball Association (ASA) has taken great strides to protect the integrity of the sport. Each year, the ASA's equipment testing and specifications committee examines the current rules and specifications governing various items of equipment. This committee makes recommendations to the ASA's council comprised of ASA commissioners, select youth and player representatives, umpire-in-chiefs, elite athletes and other affiliated members. The council is the ultimate decision maker of ASA rules and regulations regarding equipment.

Check out their web site:

http://www.asasoftba...d_equipment.asp
or try http://1softball.com...oftballBats.htm

Before you spend $200 on a bat then spend another $200 having it altered, do your homework!

#4
jlurban

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Good point, KCSoftball! The rules are meant to ensure an “equal playing field” and to keep costs down, but more importantly to promote safety. Several serious injuries have been reported from the use of altered bats, and the ASA is cracking down on players caught using them with a minimum one-year suspension. The organization has also successfully filed lawsuits against five companies that specialize in bat shaving and rolling (see the separate topic “Hot” modified bats, Are they dangerous?).

#5
BatRoller

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You make mention of the fact that 5 people have been sued by ASA for shaving and rolling softball bats. Do you have a link for that? There have only been 2 people sued for bat altering. They were actually sued for trademark infringement. They were painting bats to something different than they were. There has not been anyone sued for rolling or shaving a bat.

ASA has recently adopted the policy of rolling each bat prior to testing its performance. ASA will actually roll the bat themselves, then test it. If the bat then performs at a higher level than what's permitted by their rules it's not approved. If it performs at the permitted level then they approve it.

Logic would dictate that by using this new procedure any rolled bat would still perform at the approved level. Every composite bat will eventually perform at a higher level. The problem is that in order to get to that level you need to put about 500 hits on it. If you've ever seen a bat with 500 hits on it you know that at that point it's VERY worn out. By rolling your bat in the beginning it reaches the highest performance level without all the wear and tear.

I agree with you that shaving a bat is very danagerous and DOES make a bat perform at a higher level, but I totally disagree about rolling. As I mentioned ASA is now rolling each bat prior to testing it for approval. If you do a search on YouTube you can actually see the ASA performing the rolling process. They actually call it ABT (Advanced Break-in Technique) or something along those lines.

I know this is a fastpitch forum but if you look in the ISA (Independent Softball Association) rulebook they speciifically say that rolling is LEGAL in their association.

#6
jlurban

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You make mention of the fact that 5 people have been sued by ASA for shaving and rolling softball bats. Do you have a link for that?

My source was the article 'Hot' bats crushing softball pitchers; Modified equipment turns playground fun into dangerous game by Jason Anderson, published 7/13/08, 6:00 AM:

Greater San Joaquin ASA Commissioner Matt Pfeifer said modified bats have led to an increase in injuries. The ASA has successfully filed lawsuits against five companies that specialize in bat shaving and rolling, said Craig Cress, the ASA's director of membership services. The organization imposes minimum one-year suspensions on players caught using altered bats.

The entire article is quoted in a separate post.

#7
BatRoller

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I think the ASA commissioner they were talking to was either not sure of his facts or might having been referring to civil suits related to those caught using shaved bats. There is absolutely NO WAY you can tell a bat has been rolled, and I'm 100% sure there have not been any lawsuits brought against companies shaving or rolling bats. The lawsuits on two individuals (Troy Waterman and Mike Rogers) were brought by several associations and manufactures due to copyright infringement. They were taking the Miken Ultra (a slowpitch bat which is illegal for use) and making it into a legal bat by painting and relabeling.

There's a pretty informative piece on the ASA's new testing procedure at this link: www.kettering.edu/~drussell/bats-new/abi.html. This shows the ASA is rolling bats prior to approval, so by companies offering the rolling process to the public, the bats should in theory still meet the maximum performance rating of the manufacturer.

Shaving is a whole other issue. It will make the bat performance higher that the permitted levels. That's why we don't offer the shaving services.

#8
KCSoftball

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I still feel that if you have to alter a bat in order to gain an advantage, you are cheating. Yes ASA rolls bats during testing to see what bats will do, to see if they will meet or exceed the standards set. It's not right to see players getting hurt so some can make a few dollars or hit a few more home runs in a softball game that is supposed to be for fun. I guess only minor organizations (ISA) will let altered bats be used. All the major organizations (ASA, NSA, USSSA) are against altered bats, rolled or shaved. If you do use an altered bat, I still call it CHEATING! If you're not man enough to hit it out with an honest bat, so be it!

#9
kysoftball

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Thanks KC.

#10
KCSoftball

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If you pay 300 to 400 dollars for a bat that breaks just when you are getting maximum performance from it which is usually about 200 swings of 2000 that most bats give you.

You answered your own question. Bats are designed not to last past the break-in point! Bat's are illegally rolled so that they can go beyond the limit of 98-100 mph that has been set for bats. The 6'4" to 6'8" monsters that walk onto the field with steroids dripping out of their veins and crush the ball 400 feet are meant to be able to do that. Someday maybe we will have drug testing for all sports, professional & amateurs. It's the 6'2"-and-under guys that never work out that are hitting the 400' liners that are the problem! Someday when your pitcher goes down because of a rolled bat, just remember why! Me, I'll just keep "hitting 'um where they ain't" for a high average, and when someone gets hurt be able to sleep at night!

You know that for 99.99% of us slowpitch is supposed to be for fun. If you need to use illegal equipment (rolled bats) to hit home runs so you can brag that you hit a couple of home runs in a slowpitch game so you could "win" a t-shirt, you need help! For heaven sakes the ball is fed to you and easier than hitting off a "T"!

MAN UP GUYS!!!

#11
kysoftball

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Hey KC, good luck it has been nice chatting with you. Hit it hard and hit it long, just not at me!

#12
KCSoftball

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Read the rules, be it ASA, NSA, USSA, Pony, Bobby Sox, Dixie, CIF, NCAA or Little League, or any organization. Any altered bat is illegal. If you deliberately "roll" a bat, that my friend is altering the bat! Using it to hit balls is not!

I come on this forum to discuss issues, not as a "rep" for any association. I come here for the love of the game! I have played, officiated, administrated and run teams, leagues and tournaments for the ASA, NSA, SCMAF, ISC and other organizations for over 60 years. I was also a pitcher in my day. I support any organization that wants to further this great sport.

Anyone that "cheats" to win a softball game is a very small person! I wish all the associations could drug test any person that they felt was using. But alas, the cost would be prohibitive. After all most of these are not-for-profit organizations. All the major organizations rely on "honesty" from the players. It's a sad state when that may no longer be the norm in slowpitch softball.

I'll keep hitting my "tweeners" and hitting for high average and scoring just as many runs the right way!

#13
kysoftball

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As a matter of fact some bats like the Mikens, Rip-its, and Eastons are hotter when they are broken in by excessive hitting as opposed to being rolled. Send a whole team on the field with brand-new gloves and see how many errors they make, as opposed to a team that has accelerated their break-in period with oils, creams, and other various methods. No competitive player will go into a game without some kind of pretreatment of his defensive weapon. So you see there are all kinds of hypothetical ideas about the game to improve it that could be addressed.

#14
KCSoftball

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I see where you went back and deleted your previous post (#9)! I was going to comment on all your accomplishments in winning all those National Championships and such. It looked like a very impressive resume!

Yes, some bats when broken in are hotter than the 100 MPH limit, but those bats are at the end of their useful life and will break down. But it is not against the rules to "oil" your glove! It is against the rules to "alter" a bat! Safety is a totally different option. Oiling your glove is a safety item, so one doesn't take a ball in the face! Just like you don't alter a batting helmet to gain an advantage! BUT:

----Any bat that has been mechanically altered or changed in any way to make it perform bettter is illegal.----

Rules can't be made for everything or the game will cease to be enjoyable. There are a lot of "new" rules that could be made, but players are supposed to be honest! Using an altered bat or 'roids to increse your natural periformance is wrong! Go to the gym to get stronger, don't use artificial means!!

I would think that you, as a past winner of all these "national" championships, would be standing on a corner yelling against the use of a rolled bat. Using an "altered" bat cheapens the game for all the people that don't cheat! It's just like Bonds and A-Rod using 'roids! It's called "CHEATING" to get an edge. It paints all the people with a very broad brush. Now anyone that hits a lot of home runs is either on 'roids or using an illegal bat! The "real" home run hitters need to stand up against rolled, shaved or otherwise altered bats and 'roids, and be counted to keep the game honest!

So, next time you step up to the plate, ask yourself: "Am I a real home run hitter, or just a wannabe?" Then take out the bat you plan to use!!!! I flat out cannot see how a person can be proud after hitting a home run, knowing they had to use illegal means to do it! You didn't beat the other team, your illegal bat did!!! My hope is that players will "man up" and use a legal bat!

#15
KCSoftball

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Just what is a "ALTERED BAT"? The definition from the 2009 ASA Participant Manual (offical rule book) is the following:

RULE 1 - DEFINITIONS

ALTERED BAT: When the physical structure of a legal softball bat has been changed.

It is very simple: you roll a bat and you are breaking the rule—that's cheating, case closed! :wub:

#16
Tri-Shell Scott

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Just what is a "ALTERED BAT"? The definition from the 2009 ASA Participant Manual (offical rule book) is the following:

RULE 1 - DEFINITIONS

ALTERED BAT: When the physical structure of a legal softball bat has been changed.

It is very simple: you roll a bat and you are breaking the rule—that's cheating, case closed! ;)

Isn't the physical structure of a bat changed by simply hitting a 12-inch softball???

#17
KCSoftball

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That is considered "normal" for a bat, therefore not "physically and/or mechanically" altering the bat! Hitting a softball is the only way to break in a bat! Plus, any bat that exceeds the 98/100mph limit is concidered an illegal bat by definition, no matter how it is broken in.

#18
jlurban

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If there was any doubt before, ASA has now made it clear it considers bat rolling illegal. Rule 3, Section 7 of the 2010 ASA playing rules states:

Characteristics of approved equipment cannot be changed. Examples include icing or cooling of any equipment. In addition, approved bats shall not be rolled, shaved or modified to change their characteristics from that produced by the manufacturer.



#19
Softballing 24/7

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You make mention of the fact that 5 people have been sued by ASA for shaving and rolling softball bats. Do you have a link for that? There have only been 2 people sued for bat altering. They were actually sued for trademark infringement. They were painting bats to something different than they were. There has not been anyone sued for rolling or shaving a bat.

Yes, only 2 people were sued and it was for painting bats. They settled with a few phone calls and a huge lawyer bill.
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Bat Rolling

#20
Softballing 24/7

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